[Fergal]

In your opinion, is it cruel to keep birds such as budgies and canaries, as pets in cages and aviaries?

[Jem Smith]

In general, yes, I think so. Aviaries are better, because at least the birds can fly. Small cages are awful. Some people let parrots out of their cages to play but only with their wings clipped, which I find sad because they can't express the natural behaviour of flight.

I have chickens as pets. I don't need to clip their wings because they are terrible at flying- in fact some of them don't even have flight feathers. During the day they are free to roam our yard, which is pretty large,and just shut in at night to keep them safe from predators. This seems to me like a nicer way to keep pet birds. You can keep guinea fowl and some other birds the same way (more or less).

[Trush Jodie]

There is no need to domesticate birds that can fly. It would surely be cruel. I prefer keeping birds that can't fly as pets.

[Netherrealmer]

I notice people are able to keep parrots and doves without the need of cages

[cmoneyspinner]

It's cruel if you caged them to be cruel. But if you're not mistreating the creatures I don't think it's cruel. Animals sometimes come to humans for help. There was a coyote or a fox that kept trying to stop cars driving on the road. Come to find out the animal was trying to stop people because their baby got stuck in a trap and instinctively tried to get a human to help. They must know we're not the enemy

[Jem Smith]

I notice people are able to keep parrots and doves without the need of cages

Usually people clip parrots' wings. Doves is doable though, like racing and carrier pigeons.

--- 05 Jun 2024, 08:42 ---

It's cruel if you caged them to be cruel. But if you're not mistreating the creatures I don't think it's cruel. Animals sometimes come to humans for help. There was a coyote or a fox that kept trying to stop cars driving on the road. Come to find out the animal was trying to stop people because their baby got stuck in a trap and instinctively tried to get a human to help. They must know we're not the enemy

It doesn't have to be intended to be cruel for it to be cruel. I don't think people who keep canaries and budgies in cages do so to be cruel. They just want a pretty pet and aren't necessarily thinking about it from the perspective of the bird.

Helping rehabilitate injured animals is great, but that's different from keeping them as pets. I have friends who are wildlife carers who look after injured animals, and ones which have been confiscated from smugglers (when people try to take them out of the country illegally in suitcases to sell them for profit, and get caught).

Re. caged birds, people used to do even worse. Canaries only sing during the day, so people used to blind them so they would not know what time it was and would also sing at night.

[Netherrealmer]

My ducks and geese are roaming freely at my land, Sometimes though they are menace to neighbors

[bestwriter]

GAMMA STANDING ON STEPS.jpg (121.26 KiB) Viewed 291 times

It will be cruelty only if they are put in cages We had chickens as pets and they were set free. One of them lived for 12 years.

[ekta13]

Birds are beautiful creature, they have wings for a reason which means they are meant to fly. Fly up above the sky spreading their wings and enjoying the beauty of nature. I love birds, I really do love watching them but I would never keep this beautiful creature in cage. A cage is a cage wether is made of iron or gold. No one enjoy living captive. Some people are brutal enough to cut their feather to stop them from flying. I would never support that kind of love.

[arunima]

If someone is meant to fly high naturally, keeping them caged would be a cruel thing to do. And clipping their wings is definitely a cruelty.

[Fergal]

Thanks everyone for your replies, that is all very interesting. What is your opinion on the argument that some pet birds such as budgies and canaries have been bred in captivity for many generations and could not survive in the wild? For example, someone may have a pet budgie that they love and look after well, if they were to release that bird into the wild it would not be able to survive.

[bestwriter]

Thanks everyone for your replies, that is all very interesting. What is your opinion on the argument that some pet birds such as budgies and canaries have been bred in captivity for many generations and could not survive in the wild? For example, someone may have a pet budgie that they love and look after well, if they were to release that bird into the wild it would not be able to survive.

They should be provided with a large space with greenery inside the shelters

[Jem Smith]

Thanks everyone for your replies, that is all very interesting. What is your opinion on the argument that some pet birds such as budgies and canaries have been bred in captivity for many generations and could not survive in the wild? For example, someone may have a pet budgie that they love and look after well, if they were to release that bird into the wild it would not be able to survive.

I wouldn't suggest releasing captive birds into the wild, where they would not survive, but that's not a good argument to keep breeding them to keep in captivity. We don't have to do that. We could let the ones that are currently in captivity live out their lives, then not capture any more.

On a related note, I have seen budgies in the wild (I'm not suggesting this means that captive budgies could survive in the wild) and it was a truly beautiful sight to see thousands of them in the air. That's what I think of when I see them in cages and it makes me sad.

[Angie10]

I personally HATE birds being caged up for the same reason I can't stand animals being used in circuses and zoos. When I lived in the UK, I could never go along with family to see wild animals in a zoo. It broke my heart and unless you've seen wild animals in their natural habitat, you'd never understand. I agree completely with @Jem Smith, releasing the ones currently in captivity could endanger them. So the best thing would be to stop the practice going forward. Human beings must stop being so selfish and using animals for their entertainment regardless of the impact on them.

[mrki444]

People have many years birds as pets like parrots. It was not big deal for it. If we mark it as cruel shouldn't we left dogs and cats to? We could not have any pet since every pet have wild version in nature.

[Fergal]

Thanks everyone for your replies, that's all very interesting. When I was a child and in my early teens (a long time ago) I kept some birds in an aviary. I really enjoyed it but don't do it anymore. I really like the idea of it, but I have concerns that it is cruel, even when the birds are well kept.

On a related note, I have seen budgies in the wild (I'm not suggesting this means that captive budgies could survive in the wild) and it was a truly beautiful sight to see thousands of them in the air

Sounds lovely, are the wild ones all green?

People have many years birds as pets like parrots. It was not big deal for it. If we mark it as cruel shouldn't we left dogs and cats to? We could not have any pet since every pet have wild version in nature.

I also wondered about that, many people who consider it cruel to keep birds, do not feel the same way about dogs. Does that mostly come down to the fact that (most) birds can fly and it seems particularly cruel to restrict that and keep them in cages.

[mrki444]

I also wondered about that, many people who consider it cruel to keep birds, do not feel the same way about dogs. Does that mostly come down to the fact that (most) birds can fly and it seems particularly cruel to restrict that and keep them in cages.

Cats are night animals. If you have yard you will see how cats don't sleep a lot at night (they run, catch mouse, play with other cats) but during day they sleep much more. What then we can say about people who keep cats all day in apartment? That is much more cruel for me.

[Angie10]

It doesn't have to be intended to be cruel for it to be cruel. I don't think people who keep canaries and budgies in cages do so to be cruel. They just want a pretty pet and aren't necessarily thinking about it from the perspective of the bird.

Helping rehabilitate injured animals is great, but that's different from keeping them as pets. I have friends who are wildlife carers who look after injured animals, and ones which have been confiscated from smugglers (when people try to take them out of the country illegally in suitcases to sell them for profit, and get caught).

Re. caged birds, people used to do even worse. Canaries only sing during the day, so people used to blind them so they would not know what time it was and would also sing at night.

This!!! I think the human race is the worst type of creature. We like something, we want it, so we just go and grab it from its natural home, keeping it for our own entertainment That's why I never feel any sympathy for people who get maimed or killed by their pet lions, tigers and snakes. Yes, they are cute but they belong in the wild not as pets in someone's house. They are wild and cannot be tamed. I strong believe they are born to roam wild and free.

[Jem Smith]

People have many years birds as pets like parrots. It was not big deal for it. If we mark it as cruel shouldn't we left dogs and cats to? We could not have any pet since every pet have wild version in nature.

That something is old or traditional isn't a good argument to keep doing it by itself. Bull fighting is an old tradition, and it's very cruel.

Fair question re. the comparison with dogs and cats though. I would say that the difference is that they are domestic animals very different from the wild creatures they evolved from (especially dogs, compare a corgi with a wolf). They don't seem to suffer by living as pets (at least as long as humans aren't cruel to them- obviously there are lots of exceptions and abuses). Parrots are physically the same as they were in the wild (except for minor things like some new colour variations) and are not as well adapted to living with us. They also naturally fly, and want to do that. The equivalent of clipping a bird's wings would be making a dog physically unable to run (like tying two of its legs together or something).

--- 10 Jun 2024, 10:04 ---

Cats are night animals. If you have yard you will see how cats don't sleep a lot at night (they run, catch mouse, play with other cats) but during day they sleep much more. What then we can say about people who keep cats all day in apartment? That is much more cruel for me.

I don't have a cat because I don't like that they kill so much wildlife, and I'm trying to encourage birds to come into my garden.

I don't really like the idea of keeping a cat indoors so I just don't have one at all. That being said, I can see why some people have cats they keep inside. Some cats do seem to like living that way- some are particularly lazy or uninterested in hunting. Also, cats that are kept indoors tend to live longer because they don't get hit by cars, attacked by dogs, or get into fights with other cats, and are less likely to catch diseases.

It's interesting how a lot of people think we have a right to keep pets, even if it's not in the best interest of the animal. I love animals, but if I thought it was cruel to keep them I wouldn't do it. I don't think "because I want one" is enough.

[Vehlijanta]

My personal opinion is it's not cruel as long as the parrot Or the bird is happy